Show notes for this episode:
Get Gilbert's help to run your advertising: leafgrow.io
Hi, everyone. Very warm welcome to another episode of the eCommerce Freedom Podcast. Before we dive in today, a little update. So I've actually moved here in Stockholm, moved apartment. Living in a new place right now. I'm recording this episode using a couple of boxes as desks. And the one thing that's different about this apartment is it's in a better location, which is good because it's right next to everything.
I mean, I look out my window and I see high street shops, everything really. Really great place to live. Only issue though is that there's quite a busy road I'm on. So if you do hear any sirens or cars in the background, hopefully it will be quite a relaxing sound - who knows, but that might be a slight addition to this episode.
But what I'm way more excited about speaking of additions is Gilbert Coralles, who is my guest for today. Gilbert works for a company called Leaf Grow, and it is both an agency and also a platform that helps you run your social media marketing. So, plugs into Facebook, helps you manage your Facebook ad campaigns, organizes everything for you, and helps you scale your ad campaigns and do all the heavy lifting for you.
The reason I wanted to speak with Gilbert is because really he is unbelievably knowledgeable about traffic - which is quite funny because there's going to be loads of traffic in the background today - and I want to get his insights about how we can use this stuff with eCommerce and with Amazon.
So, Gilbert, it’s really fantastic to have you on the show today. How are you doing today, man?
Yeah, pretty good, Oliver. Thanks for having me. It's a rainy day in the North of England, but , beautiful, and lots of birds singing, so.. can’t complain.
Good stuff, man. Fantastic. So what I'd love to start off with first is, I'd like to just hear a little bit about your story what led you to create this agency? How did it start out? I've heard that it started out with something slightly different maybe in the music industry. So tell me a little bit about those first few steps and what led to Leaf Grow being what it is today.
Yeah, of course. When we started Leaf Grow, we started with a very simple mission, and it was to empower musicians all over the globe to engage, grow, and monetize their audiences. You will know, right? The music ecosystem and the music landscape has changed very, very much in the last 20 years. And despite the fact that nowadays you're kind of like more connected than ever, getting to those fans whenever you want them, it's very difficult, right? ‘Cause they're not really your fans.
And so we thought about how can we change that and how can we empower musicians. And that's kind of like how we started. We started with a conser facing product that will let people discover artists. But with the artists as the center, rather than the playlist. Unlike essentially every single music service out there. And really allowing artists to do that.
Now, funny enough, as we were getting ready to launch the app, we realized that we didn't have any marketing experience in the team to get it out to people. So we kind of took a very engineering approach to marketing. And in doing that, we came up with a methodology which essentially sits at the core of Leaf Grow and iterating over that methodology, it allowed us to reach millions of people, to build a very big fan base.
Then that led us do start really delivering our mission and helping musicians, labels and so on and so forth, to reach and engage audiences. And at that time we realized that actually what we were building was like a marketing solution, right, that will allow people to do that. Engage, grow, and monetize.
Now, little did we know that musicians don't really care about making money. They care about making music, the money side is somebody else's business. Scaling that and delivering on our mission was probably gonna take us slightly different.
Now in doing that, we stbled into something, and it was that that same methodology and same technology, essentially, that we'd built behind for ourselves, was actually going to help anybody that wanted to find that audience, reach that audience, and convert that audience in one way or the other, whether or not you're a musician - which we still do, and have a lot of labels and musicians as customers, but also as a commerce, right, or as a brand.
You want to reach and engage. At the end of the day, you're competing against the same thing, which is a space in the newsfeed, for people to take action. And that, in essence, is how Leaf Grow has evolved from a music-only company to now one that allows businesses of every size to engage, grow, but most importantly, to convert and monetize those audiences through through purchases.
Love it, man. That's fascinating. And it's fascinating how you really started to develop a lot of these strategies that were going to help the people using your app when you were actually trying to get the app out there. That's a really interesting thing that happened to you.
So I understand you've had recognition from Facebook and Twitter. And you’re a recognized and recommended platform by them. Can you tell me a little bit about that?
Yeah. I mean, it was funny, because when we were doing Leaf music and as it was growing, both Twitter and Facebook reached out separately. Twitter to see how we were doing, what we were doing, because we were getting better results than the next one.
And this was not just in cost, but in quality. So you have to remember that sometimes, not all engagement is great because not all of that converts into actual action. But also the quality, right?
Like our next day retention, which, if you haven't got, that's important. Next day retention means how many people that downloaded the app today come back to your app tomorrow. And that's what, in many ways, defines how successful you are going to be in retaining those customers. And for us it was pretty high. It was about 60-65%, which means that 65% of the people that were here today will come back tomorrow.
So they came back to us and they worked with us and with the team to understand our methodology and they allowed us to model our experiments and spreadsheets and they will run it on the back and things like that, because we would really, really quickly kind of max out what was possible. It could be done in there.
These are the early days. Twitter, didn't have strong API which we could interact and model things. And then on the other hand, we have Facebook and we know we were doing a lot of experimentation on the back of their marketing API and the same - they recognized what we were doing, they wrote a case study about us and the success that we were getting.
Spotify started targeting our customers in Latin America, which was funny. And then later we had people from Spotify, customers of ours, telling us about the region there. And I think it was very interesting. But we got invited to Facebook in 2018, to Palo Alto, spend some time there and understand more about kind of like where they saw things going.
And we realized that there was a great opportunity in eCommerce. We saw there was a great opportunity in helping businesses make better sense of the customer base, how they are able to convert.
I think that really opened our eyes a lot and also made us realize the technology and the methodology that we have built. And in many ways since then, we kind of turned the page and never looked back. And we're super happy with the impact that we've had and businesses that were small that are now getting bigger and bigger, businesses who are strengthening and doing even more things.
Awesome. I couldn't help noticing, you actually have Bear Grylls as a case study. So what stuff did you do with him?
Yeah, I mean, Bear Grylls is actually a pretty interesting experience. When we started engaging with them, we did it through their main agency, which is called RetroFuzz, now mates of ours from Manchester. They had engaged RetroFuzz to kind of have a rebuild of their website and look at some of their digital strategy and so on and so forth. And they came to us.
One of the things that they wanted to do was to start building up or accelerate Bear Grylls’ email subscription list where Bear will chair stuff that he's doing with the Scouts, through different things that he does.. They were about to launch a podcast on Spotify and some other stuff and so on and so forth.
So they came to us and said, hey, can you help us with this? We said, sure, what's your goal? And goal was X. And I was like, right. So for when? And they were like, for the end of the year. And we said, well, we probably can deliver that in a month. And they're like, nah, no way.
I was like, yeah, maybe we can start with that. But we started looking at their eCommerce and they were looking to transform and launch a full eCommerce experience around Bear Grylls’ brand and the brands that he collaborates with.
And we said, well, actually that is a great opportunity. We started collaborating with them and then we launched right before Black Friday last year, a full new eCommerce experience.
And since then we've been growing quite accelerated. It was also a very interesting challenge because him being a celebrity, especially a global celebrity. Your engagement persona, your engagement mark, people who engage with your content is very different from the people who will go and buy products from you.
Bear Grylls’ product spread is quite big - from specialized products that aren't expensive all the way to the more affordable merchandise around his brand. But making that distinction and understanding who your buying persona is, what does that target market look like, and finding that in a relatively fast fashion in a way that you can scale, was pretty interesting.
And in the six months we'd been working with them, their business has been growing. When we started, this was probably the other way around. We started with his need to see a store or direct to consumer store. And then we start expanding to Amazon.
And now we're launching Amazon in the US , we've been doing it in the UK and alongside that strategy with the D2C store has been a very, very interesting and successful experience.
It's amazing, man. And I'm really glad I asked because that segues us quite nicely into the eCommerce stuff. So you were literally driving traffic to his eCommerce store to sell people things like - what does he sell knives, camping gear, I don't know what…
Yeah things from military-grade watches to… There is some very cool stuff - for hiking, camping.. but these are great quality products. And then you have more affordable ones like water bottles and posters and stuff like that. He does a lot of great books so that's available there as well.
But probably something to bear in mind - this is just not traffic. This is about performance marketing. And I think this is one of the things that people need to get into their minds. Especially when you're doing things like shopping, you're not just driving traffic, you're actually looking at how you're attracting customers to your brand.
And in many ways - I was talking to somebody some time ago and like, if you have a store in a mall, having the store, it's just kinda like the step one. Getting the foot traffic in the mall is step two. But getting the quality for traffic into the store, it's step three. And that's what you want.
Quality traffic would mean people that will come in and actually buy something right now. There will be people who will come in and out and will probably come back three times before they buy something.
But it's making sure that you're looking at the people that you bring to your website from that perspective. It's not just about traffic, but it's about the quality of the people that you bring in the different touch points and articulations that you have for them to buy at the end of the day or something.
Absolutely. Yeah. We don't just want people browsing or people jumping on the site then bouncing or bots. We want people who are interested and ready to engage and who are potential lifetime customers.
So what I'd love to talk about is, I think this would really benefit my listeners and my audience. Let's say, you've got an Amazon website. You put an Amazon business and let's say, you're doing, I don't know, a few thousand a month or something like that. And you've got a product that's doing well.
My initial aim for any private label product is to do a thousand pounds profit per month, for example. So let's say somebody did that and they're just starting, they're just beginning to grow. Just in the UK. And they realized that Amazon is an amazing platform.
It does a lot of stuff for you, but there's always the risk that Amazon one day could get your account in trouble, or there could be some problem with the listing or something. And they're thinking, well, maybe I want to diversify.
What would be the first few steps if somebody wanted to take this product, not just sell it on Amazon, but also sell it maybe on their own eCommerce store and actually have to drive their own traffic and create their own engaged audience. What would be the first step to make that happen?
Yeah. I think that's very important. You want to have your own destination. I think Amazon is great for you to get started and to start testing and to start kind of like playing with getting a product and selling to your potential customers, but you also have to understand that those are Amazon customers that they're allowing to kind of like interact with you.
But on your website - those are your customers, and building the balance and the strategy between both doesn't mean one is better than the other one. They are complimentary.
And I think you need to start building from that mindset just like you do post-purchase engagement with your customers on Amazon where you send them a survey, you ask them to review you, there are things that you can do, like take them to your website for either registering your product or whatever.
So that way you can engage with them and increase the lifetime value. You always need to be thinking about not just purchase, but the relationship that you build with your customers in the long term.
And doing it in your own property, on your own website is sometimes easier than doing it just on Amazon. And I think as you said, sometimes you can get into some tricky situations with your Amazon account.
It doesn't happen to everybody. It doesn't happen always. But there's always a possibility. And you want to make sure that you always have that. But your own website is something that you own. That's a brand that you built. And it's that direct to consumer experience that you can build. It is the place where you can actually express your own self in many ways, this whole brand and the products that you sell.
And doing that, you know, the simplest way is just to get a Shopify store. You can also take a Wix store or you can do… there are many ways. But I think Shopify out of all, is probably the safest bet to get started.
There are a lot of plugins, the simplest plugins that you can put in even to the point where you can connect your Amazon store through it and feed in and out out of that. And you can get up and running very simple with that. And from there start understanding how you build the brand, start bringing traffic of quality to it, start looking at the conversions and the different touch points that exist in between.
Yeah, you're right, man. Shopify is just a really simple platform. I think it's probably one of the fast - I mean, I've experimented with it. Haven't really used it like fully. Experimented with it. And I've got a site up and running in about a day with everything – the cart, the upsells, and you can range the page how you like, which is something you can't do on Amazon.
So let's say you've got your Shopify store, you've got a couple of products on there. You could probably do that in a few hours. Let's say you get some customers on the site, how do we make sure they come back? How do we make sure they don't just see our site and then leave and never come back again?
Yeah, I think that's great. I mean, one of the first thing that I would do is that, alongside with Shopify, you will probably want to have your Instagram account and your Facebook page, have those connected and create what is called a pixel.
Pixel is essentially a piece of code that you can drop off your Shopify, as simple as one number - I can send some of the resources so that Oliver can put it on the show notes - where we explain to you step by step, how to get your pixel, how do you go to Shopify, put it there..
And once you have that, it allows you to start learning about your customers. It will give you, data about the actions that your customers are taking in your site. One of those are events, you can fire events. So whenever somebody adds a product to your cart, you fire them. So when somebody in Stockholm added a product to your cart, whenever somebody checks out, you also fire an event around that.
So you can then set up campaigns in Facebook that actually will be optimizing - your main objective will be optimizing towards those events. So you're going to be looking at it as a funnel. It's a sales funnel.
You have your top of the funnel, which is people learning about your product or learning about your brand. You have your middle of funnel, which is people who already come to your site and then have not taken action. Or maybe they added something to your cart, but they bounced off. And then you have your bottom of the funnel. And the bottom of the funnel is getting people to that last action, which is purchase.
You're going to be having campaigns that are going to be driving towards this strategy, three stages of your funnel and you're architected in that way in your campaigns. And again, you can use Leaf Grow to do that, or you can do it directly on Facebook. Then, you're going to be optimizing for the different stages of that funnel.
That means when somebody comes to your site and doesn't take action, you can retarget them or not, maybe even of the bottom of funnel.. Some of the things that you can do is you can offer them a coupon. So you say, hey, that thing that you put on your cart - here's a 10% coupon. Come back, get that, buy it.
And then there is the post purchase experience. It's just as important in Amazon as it is on your own store and probably more on your own store, because you want to be looking at that lifetime value of your customers, right? You want customers to repeat with you, to build that relationship with you, whether that's through your product or through the offering that you provide.
And there are things that you can do - there are services like Drip that you can connect to your Shopify store. And then whenever somebody buys, then you can automatically send them an email a few days later asking them how they like your product, having them review your products, have a Trustpilot kind of plugin in it so that people can start validating the reviews and things like that.And all those different things to get people and your brand get stronger.
Again, you don't have to have all of those things from day one. If you have to have one thing from day one, it’s have your Facebook pixel in it, because then that will allow you to start getting data - data about your audience, about the people who are experiencing the site.
Absolutely. Yeah. That pixel almost gives your website like, some memory. Alright. So when someone walks into the shop, it remembers who they are and then it can follow them around the internet.
So I don't know if you've ever been on a website and you're looking for some shoes or something, and you're looking to buy these shoes. And then all of a sudden you go on, I don't know, the New York times or the Guardian or whatever website. And you see the shoes on the side of the page, in an advert. That's the pixel.
What's happened is you've been re-targeted. And the people who own the website are trying to get you back to the site. So you can go ahead and actually make the decision to buy those shoes.
So if you own a website and you use your pixel properly, I mean, this is a way to constantly make every hit on your website amplified several times. ‘Cause you can see those ads all over the internet then.
Really, really great insights there. And you mentioned briefly, Gilbert, about Drip and about email sequences. So my audience know that I send a lot of emails to them because they get them and they realize, obviously there's a reason I do this. And it gets them, well, probably got them to listen to this podcast episode. And sometimes it gets them to buy stuff.
So how would you affect on the use of email campaigns to increase engagement and to increase sales within an eCommerce store?
Yeah. I mean, I think that's key. You want to be and you have to be mindful, right? You always want to be giving people something of value. You want to make sure that people engage with you and create that relationship. So you have to be adding value. And that value can come in very different forms.
Using the example of Bear Grylls, you're not just selling products, you're also providing value. In his case, like now with all these lockdown and COVID stuff, he’s has been providing training sessions to his followers, he has been providing content or even links to other people's content.
You want to be providing, building that relationship right around the concept of what you have to sell. And I think not everything is a purchase. You have to understand again, look in front of funnel perspective, your top of the funnel, it's about building that brand awareness. It's about building that brand relationship. Your middle and bottom of the funnel, it's more about taking that action.
So if you've captured somebody's email and they don't check out, again, you can prompt them a day later, a couple of days later, with a discount and say, hey, I saw that you added this product to your cart, here’s a 10% discount so you can make it through. And it's about doing those different options.
You can get people to subscribe to your newsletter and in return you would give them a discount for their first purchase. So there are different things, right? And you want to make it as like having a conversation with somebody. And it starts building that relationship. At the end of the day, you don't want that one transaction – you want the lifetime value relationship.
Absolutely. We've all had that experience where you join someone's email list and it's either rubbish emails with pretty much no content that you just never read, or it's like their mission to just extract as much money as humanly possible from you by constantly giving all this scarcity and all these sales and everything. And it just feels icky.
So you really want there to be value or you really want that to be valuable. We want to build a lifetime relationship and have that trust there through the emails and the sales will naturally come once people trust you. So I'm totally with you on that.
So going back to Shopify then, let's say we've got our pixels set up and let's say, we've got an email sequence set up and a checkout email and an abandoned cart email follow up sequence, and things like that.
Are there any other apps that we can use on Shopify to really help us improve that middle-bottom of funnel experience?
Yeah. I mean, there are many. And I think it’s gonna come down to kind of like what and how you want to build. I mean, there are the basic ones - Drip is one them - that you can use. Shopify itself has their own services.
I think, more than the app or the plugin, it's more about having to think about the strategy. And I think in this case, it's how you want to build that relationship. And then you can even use MailChimp if you want. And I think with this one – it’s going to come down to you yourself to start building that tool kit. And I think it's also for you to start getting embedded in this business.
I think one of the key things is, a lot of people are out looking for the quick method to become rich type of thing. And I feel like people need to understand that in many ways, this is not.. you're not running a sprint. You're running a marathon.
If anything, this is almost like a run. And you want to make sure that you're always training, you're always building, you are learning. Podcasts like this are great for giving people that extra knowledge about how they can, or ideas even, to be sharpening the soul and how you get better at building. But you're always only gonna be able to do it if you start. And you're never gonna have all the dots aligned, I think that's also important.
You're also probably gonna make some mistakes in the way. But I think the key important thing about this is just like, with your marketing campaigns, you have to come in at it in a very naive type of way, the open learning, we're open to how you can iterate and always keep that essential mindset that you're learning every time that you're trying.
I love the attitude, man. Yeah. Getting away from the, how do I make 25K in the next 30 days and more towards how do I build a really sustainable business over the next five to 10 years? And if you can do that, then what happens is you get rich slowly, which is always more beneficial for everyone involved because you build something so much more special. And yeah, it's just a great asset.
And I think, I think you said something key there, Oliver, and this is something that we tell all of our customers and all of our clients, and that is you want to be looking at building a sustainable business. You want to be looking at how to scale in a way that is sustainable?
That can give you access to things like longevity in your business. And for that, it's very key to understand your unit economics and to understand in the startup scaling, in a responsible kind of way.
The first thing that we do with any client that we onboard is look at the unit economics and start putting benchmarks. It doesn't mean that you're going to be cashflow positive from day one, but it's important for you to what are you building towards.
We were having this conversation with a client of ours that we onboarded a couple of months ago, and he's an Amazon seller. He’s been doing a million pounds a year in sales and he's now wanting to take some of that experience and start building a D2C store.
We were talking and he's like, how soon am I going to be able to be looking at cashflow positive on this side? And you have to remember, both businesses are very different, but one has the sustainability that you own your audience, the other one you don't. And it's how to start building towards that. But for him, it's understanding what the unit economics should be, what is the target return on investment, what is the target return?
So that you always kind of have that end in mind and that goal in mind, and as you build, you're getting closer and closer to it. I'm thinking that that's important for you to understand.
‘Cause at the end of the day, you want to make sure that this is something that will grow with you, but also will give you that security that at the end of the day, it can not only pay for itself, but can actually grow and scale.
Absolutely. Yeah. And the thing is, you can start building assets as well, even when you have your own list or do you have your own site, the assets that you own, like when you sell on Amazon, you don't really own those assets. So Amazon's logo, Amazon's website, Amazon's customers all belong to Jeff Bezos and his shareholders, and you're borrowing them.
But when you have your own site, it's your thing. When you have your own list, it's your thing. No one can take that away from you. And so that will be very valuable. And even if let's say you break even on advertising for a whole year and you don't make a profit, well, now you've built up a massive list and you've built up that asset, which will pay off for years to come. So yeah, thinking longterm is so key.
So you mentioned benchmarks what would be like a few of the things we'd need to think about, let's say, okay, I've got a product on Shopify, right. I want to turn on some ads. I want to get some people from say Facebook and Instagram to go to my website. I want to make a few sales.
What kind of numbers would we be thinking about? I mean, the first thing that jumps to my mind is understanding what the breakeven point would be after the cost of the product and the cost of landed goods and the shipping, how much room we have to spend on ads.
What other things do we need to consider when we're trying to build an ad campaign that doesn't just bleed money?
Yeah. I think it's key to look at all of those things. And I will say there is no one benchmark. It's very different business to business. It depends on the product that you're selling and the margins that you can play with.
If you have products that have low margin, it means that more often than not things like makeup or like consumables sometimes have low margins, but you can think of those in a way that you want to build a good relationship with your customers where your cost of acquisition is front loaded, but then you kind of make profit in the relationship, right. And the lifetime value of that customer.
So you can say okay, in my cost of acquisition, I'm willing to go for one X of the cost of the product. And probably you're not gonna make any money on that first job - gonna kinda like break even, but I'm going to be making the profit in the second, third, for whatever purchase repeatable from that customer.
Now, other products have very high margins, which allows you to, but also probably that repeatability right of that purchase will be lower. Therefore you will want to be maximizing towards that initial purchase because then you want to be seeing a proper return on it.
One of our customers has this baby brand, it's one of those and he has a very cool product and but it's one of those things where you only buy once or twice maybe, but not something that you will be buying in a reputable kind of way.
So for him, it's very important that he makes his return right on the first purchase. For somebody like him, when we started, the target was pretty high, right? He wanted to get back his return on investment, needed to be on the multiples. Sometimes with different products, you can, but I think the key to that will be to understand very well your unit economics and then what that tells you.
Like, what's the affordable cost of acquisition that you can aim at, and then you work towards that. And then obviously you want the results to tell you whether that's attainable or not. And then that means that you probably will have to tune tuning things in and out.
One of the things that we provide our customers, both as a managed service or in the platform, is your reports, we'll let you see what your return on investment is. It also will allow you to stack different campaigns because you also have to understand that despite the fact that you might have one campaign, there is one whose aim is for that conversion.
There are other companies that are playing their role and it's like one of those we like to use this analogy like who's caused the goal, the player who lasts the ball, or all the different players that touch the ball in the play that made the goal.
You have to understand that this is a team sport where there are going to be different touch points, right. At the people. Now, sometimes it's going to be the same one, but, more often than not, it's a combination of a touch point that you're going to be making with a customer before they buy something.
And for you to understand the user journey in a customer journey and how they make their way to you and understanding that at the end of the day, you'll be looking at a blender cost of acquisition, which probably is going to be a combination of different things that make up for that for that purchase to happen.
So important. A lot of these things only really materialize once you've been running the business for a while, because you also need to understand what is the average cart value? What was the average amount that a customer's going to spend? Once you know that number, now you can start really dialing in your ad campaigns based around it.
So if someone's going to spend a hundred dollars on their first purchase, now you might want to either aim to break, even with the ads on that, or you might want to be okay with making a loss, if that the lifetime value of that customer, i.e. what they spend over, say two, three, four months over their life cycle. You'll be able to recoup after 30 days or after 60 days.
And yeah, like you said, a lot of this stuff can be gathered in reports and yeah if your software enables people to get those easily, then that's amazing.
So what I'd love to do Gilbert is just let people know where they can find you, where they can find more out about Leaf Grow and how they can work with you if they need your help.
Yeah. But before I do that, just to close on your point - something that is key for people to understand is that your marketing budget and your cost of acquisition is a factor of the cost of your goods.
And you have to understand this because you're going to be looking at a return on investment right now, if your product costs a hundred, or if your product costs 10, the cost of acquisition or the budget required is going to be different right now.
If your product costs a hundred, you're probably going to need a hundred and multiples, right. The cost of your product in multiples, how's your budget for marketing because Facebook and any marketing platform or channel is going to require, right. Multiple sellings to people until you're going to be getting that in multiples.
So if you have a product that costs 400, and we've seen it in the past with some customers that came and say, right, my product costs $500, but my marketing budget is, I dunno, a thousand, we would be like, well, I mean you're looking at a thousand and you want to convert that into money in your product cost a hundred dollars like you're probably going to need to reach a lot of people before that. And you're going to probably require multiples of that.
So have that in mind. Because we've seen especially when you're only starting, you want to know how much budget should I put, that budget is going to be probably a reference to the cost of goods to yourself.
So going back to your question about us, again, our service works as a platform or as a service. We're a Facebook marketing partner. We're also a Facebook marketing preferred agency, which means that Facebook audits, what we do, they test it, they try us and all that. We’re a Shopify partner as well. So we kind of know our way around. And we're happy to help you both on Amazon or outside of Amazon.
You can look it up - leafgrow.io and you can book a call. Our team members are happy to look at your case and see how we can help you. If what you're doing, meaning you run Facebook campaigns before and things like that, you can just make use of the platform in abstracts and like 80% of all the complexity from running your Facebook campaigns it makes it super simple for you to be launching campaigns across the funnel that are set up for success.
And then on the other hand we're happy to provide you with done for yourself type of service, where we work with you in building successful as strategies and delivery.
Love it. Fantastic. So leafgrow.io. Is that right?
Fantastic. All right, Gilbert, today has been really insightful, man. Thanks so much for sharing all of your insights and everything. And I hope a lot of people go check out your website and go see what you're all about. And yeah. Hope you enjoy the rest of your day, man. And we'll, we'll talk soon.
Likewise, happy weekend. Happy week, everybody. Bye. Bye.